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Re: Comments on TWC-L

Brian Sandle (
Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:10:26

Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 15:10:26
From: Brian Sandle <>
Subject: Re: Comments on TWC-L
In-Reply-To: <>

On Thu, 27 Jun 1996, Tony Halmarack wrote:

> Brian Sandle wrote:
> >perhaps want to keep quiet
> > about - ones becoming less able to communicate face to face, having
> > trouble learning tasks like Internet, housecleaning, etc.
> Oh, I think I know what you mean! You mean people such as language students
> computer users and housewives using psychedelic drugs to their detriment,
> don't you?
> While I think that these people might potentially benefit, or equally easily
> be injured by non therapeutic use of psychedelics, this area of human activity
> is not the concern of this mailing list. I am quite keen on participating
> in lists discussing other subjects though, should they appeal to me.
Then you must surely direct your ire at this writer, who was the one I
meant to quote. He is suggesting early drug taking as a prep.
And you do not deny failures but you deny bothering to care for them.
>From Fri Jun 28 00:29:52 1996
>Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 18:26:38 +0100
>From: Chris Whitehouse <>
>Reply to:
>To: Subscribers to the mailing-list TWC-L <>
>Subject: re: TWC-L Introduction

vash wrote:
> I think it is nice to sort of have an "Introduction" post to the
> list so that others can get to know people on the list, general
> stuff, before they jump into the list "purpose" subject stuff.

I'm 50, male, unemployed, & have been taking psychedelics for 30 yrs.
Enjoyments (other than drugs) include guitar, fractals, juggling, fungi,
rave flyers, writing, go (the game of Wei Ch'i), & the house-martins
which fly 2000 miles from N Africa every year to nest above the kitchen
window of my council flat.

impatient jump into the list "purpose" subject stuff... please forgive :)

MicA has mentioned Huxley, Leary & "Tibetan Book of the Dead" (via
Leary's "The Psychedelic Experience"?)... would like to add
"Persephone's Quest" (R Gordon Wasson et al, Yale Univ Press, 1986)
which summarises known associations between origins of the world's
religions & entheogens (my interpretation).

Excerpt from article "Pharmacodynamics and Therapeutic Applications of
Iboga and Ibogaine" (Robert Gouterel, Otto Gollinhofer & Roger Sillans)
in "Psychedelic Monographs and Essays" (ed Thomas Lyttle, Vol 6, 1993):

"The initiate has seen, he knows, he believes, but as a Mitsogho, he
will only make this journey twice: during the initiation and on the
day of his death. It is out of the question for him to take iboga
again under the same conditions. From then on the sacred plant will
only be used sparingly, to 'warm the heart' and to help him 'in
physical efforts or discussion'."

However from correspondence with Howard S Lotsof <>:

"The Mitsogho represent the orthodox sext of the Bwiti; and the Fang,
Beteke and other indigenous peoples who adopted the religion from
the Mitsogho are the equivalent of reformed sects. Among peoples
other than the Mitsogho, Ibogaine or more correctly Eboka or Eboga
may be taken a number of times in full doses. Also the reformed
sects allow women to participate..."

Guess what I'm trying to say is that being aware of the historical
context (that we are part of & adding to) may be of value... like:

"It is not known when the Chinese first used cannabis to achieve its
hallucinogenic effects, but it is known that consuming the drug for
this purpose was disapproved of in the period around 600 BC."

from "The Encycopedia of Psychoactive Drugs: Flowering Plants"
(Burke, 1988)

plus ca change? :)



> > Or do you count all this part of `spiritual growth'? And does death end
> > the suffering of having lived with the disabilities engendered?
> I would think that spiritual growth is inevitable, whatever the circumstances.
> I believe the purpose of this list is to help create a situation where a
> specific degree of spiritual growth, coincides with a specific critical event.
Without having a plan for dealing with those to whom the procedure has
injured one way or another?

Brian Sandle

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