Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 11:52:55 -0600
From: Vashti <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: Creating the Death Rite (was Hypnotists and Holy Persons)
At 03:16 PM 7/28/96 +0100, you wrote:
>>administered with a lethal injection of something
>> which does NOT disrupt consciousness but brings on death-sleep.
>> alternatively warm bath and blooding in a ritual sacrifice.
>This then brings in other issues to address re: euthanasia. I have little
>problem with this in cases of serious, unassuageable pain that accompanies some
>terminal illnesses (eg: cancer). Additionally some cancers can cause partial or
>complete paralysis depending on where the original tumour is and where
>secondaries appear. My friend has decided that she'd prefer to take death into
>her own hands and have someone help her if things went that way with her. We've
>had a simple discussion of it - probably the best suggestion we have for a
>lethal agent is Wolfsbane. It's skin absorbed, active in very low doses (toxic
>dose aconitine: 4 mg; 1 leaf is 20-30 doses), causes a massive drop in blood
>pressure and rise in heart rate and heart attack. Its not a toxin that
>would look for as a rule. An inconvenience is that the limb where
>take place is numbed at the site of absorbtion and tingles up the nerve to the
>shoulder. Then again, see the method in para three, which is a much better
Cancer is painful and therefore a morphine drip is sometimes preferable to
any other drug as far as "putting one to sleep". As the cancer progresses
past the point where the person is able to remain conscious and deal with
the pain...sleep is usually preferable. This may be hard for family members
to take at first. However, with relaxation techniques and meditation, the
pain can be withstood for quite some time without becoming unconcious.
Blood-letting would only increase the pain, as it would be like dehydration.
The tissues of the body tend to scream out via neuro-pathways when they are
A quick solution for most patients is the installation of a heparin lock (if
their veins have not been ate up by chemo agents, or the surgical
implantation of a "port-a-cath". A strong solution of injectable K+ will
stop the heart. But if a morphine drip is used, one can watch respirations
and increase the drip till respiratory arrest occurs.
>Plato's account of the death of Socrates might well sound peaceful enough but
>Hemlock can, in many cases, cause convulsions. While it is possible that it
>might proceed like Plato's account, it's only true of less than 50% of cases.
The body tries to reject most poisons in some way...not always
successful..death occurs but is painful.
>Of course the simplest method is mild, massage-level pressure and movement on
>the carotid and jugular. This causes partial, not complete closure of the blood
>supply to the brain. The subject feels fairly relaxed - unconsciousness comes
>extremely rapidly (within maybe 1 second after 20-30 seconds of pressure,
>depending on the degree of pressure). Continung for another minute or two
This might also have a vagal response on the heart and cause lowering of the
blood pressure and PVC's. Not a certain way to die, as a PVC has to land on
the T-segment of the heart cycle to cause V_tach, unless the heart is
already compromised in some way.
>death - that's in a healthy person. Its advantage is that there is no tissue
>damage for forensics to find, nor toxins. It's an old ninjutsu assasination
>technique largely used by kunoichi while in bed with the target - usually as
>part of foreplay. If you try it for practice nearly to the point of
>unconsciousness you'll wind up getting a splitting headache.
For organ donation, i would recommend as natural as possible. I would
certainly not include poisons.
>Just a few ideas from the Jones bumper fun book!
>Whilst lying in a hot bath and opening your veins down their length is the best
>method of cutting your wrists, I can forsee a few problems when the ex-patient
>is found lying in pools of blood. Anything that smacks of a ritual setting
>these circumstances would be likely to have the assembled might of Fleet Street
>baying over hill and dale, not to mention legions of Plod sniffing around and
>asking pointed questions!
If one could stand the pain (if indeed the death was to be a spiritual quest
as well) then I would try to be as natural as possible...I would take the
person to my garden...laying in comfort with soft music...maybe me
>Anyway, I for one am not into human sacrifice, consensual or other. I don't
>helping someone to die well and I have no objection to killing someone to
>preserve my life or someone elses but sacrifice I draw the line at. OK, so I
>know it's been done in the past (god knows how many centuries ago) in religions
>like wicca (eg: the Barley Dream) and that there are still elements of, by now,
>symbolic death in the rituals of traditional wiccan groups I personally
>I don't think you'll find too many pagans happy with the idea.
I am not into blood-letting in any way...Death is a passage to me. My
sacrifice was made for me.
>No, before anyone asks, I'm not a wiccan. Just got some friends amongst them,
>including traditional family groups. I follow a slightly different path.
>> there is a serious degredation as regards the notion
>>of death in all parts of the world.
>There's a serious degradation of most traditional views around the world.
>> but I'm a peculiar one, opting not only for
>>consensual human sacrifices but also consensual necrophilic frenzies.
>Nerophilia is dead boring! I prefer my lovers to move about a bit (OK, a lot!)
>and contribute something to the occasion. Enjoying a post-coital cigarette
>together is also a pleasure. Anyway, the dead aren't exactly known for their
>prowess at oral sex! They're not great conversationalists either! And you can't
>take your lover out for a drink or a meal - well you can but you'd get funny
>looks! You'd spend a fortune on cosmetics with a long-term girlfriend as well!!
>It's even worse if the living partner is female unless she has a bicycle pump!
>Of course, I can see advantages. You'd never have rows over who left the
>bathroom untidy. Buying stuff for one is cheaper and you'd have more time to
>enjoy lying around the house together. ;-)